Monday, July 22, 2013

Debates I'll Never Know...

If you're as weird about this topic as I am, you'll know that there are so many debates out there that were never recorded, the recording was lost/is no longer available/costs money lost in the deep unknown. Sure, some of them have transcripts but sometimes that's no fun.

Here are some of those debates:

William Lane Craig v Keith Parsons 2003

Parsons has only participated in 3 debates that I know of. One such debate is his with William Lane Craig in 1998 and it is considered one of the few times Craig was thoroughly beaten. It is one of my favorite debates and Parsons is a lot of fun to listen to. But he's only, AFAIK, done 3 debates!

This one is causing me a lot of trouble. I read in comments on the Secular Outpost that one of Parsons' former students got a copy of the debate from the CCC at University of  Indiana so I contacted Parsons about the debate and CCC. Parsons told me he would get me in contact with his former student and CCC never responded to me. A few weeks later I contacted the CCC of UI on Facebook and Parsons again. The former responded telling me they only have audio of their stuff going back to 2005. Parsons on the other hand got back to me and apparently his former student emailed the wrong person and so I am waiting to get an email back about the debate from Parsons' former student. OOOOOO THE TENSION

If I do get it, I will host it and make ALL THE DEBATE ADDICTZ listen to it.

UPDATE: I have the debate! I have uploaded it here BUT it's incomplete. Only the open statements and the Q&A are intact.

William Lane Craig v Douglas Jesseph

( transcript | Craig talks about how this was his toughest debate )

It is interesting that Craig thought this was his toughest debate and Luke M. rates this debate as ugly. Others, like Jeff Lowder called the debate a draw, so I think regardless, this debate would be interesting to listen to! Read it, and let me know what you think!

William Lane Craig v Douglas Jesseph again

( transcript )

I heard that they debated once more! Other reasons why I wanna hear these debates is that Jesseph was on his college debate team and according to Craig, insisted to the bitter end to go first in the debate, knowing that Craig pulls a lot of slick debate maneuvers or wanting to do those maneuvers himself! Tabash was slick enough to want to go first in his debate with Craig but the only ones that I can think of who have gone before Craig in a formal debate are he and Jesseph.

Note: I am not sure which one of these Craig is referring to, I would assume the 1996 one, but then so much is all mucked up about it. On the Patheos site it says that the first debate I link to took place in 1997 in the summary but not on their list of debates...

William Lane Craig v Wes Morriston

( Morriston talks about it and mentions it in his CPBD interview )

This debate happened recently, too! It was even recorded but apparently the recording messed up and we shall never hear it. Morriston is a Christian scholar known for being critical of Craig's mathematically-based arguments and one of the people that Luke M. suggested as someone to give Craig a good debate.

Look at the link to Morriston's site above, it has his assessment and ppt slides.

William Lane Craig v Walter Sinnott-Armstrong

( did it happen? )

S-A did a book and debated Craig on suffering and from what I gathered from messing around on the internet, I think they actually did another debate between their suffering debate (1999) and their book (2004). If that is the case, I would LOVE to hear/see it. But bare in mind, this debate might just be a figment of my imagination!

Keith Parsons v O. Gerald Trigg

( out of stock VHS tape )

The only other debate featuring Parsons that I know of. I have already probably bugged him about his other Craig debate so I am a little worried about asking him if he knows anything about this one. Like his other Craig debates, Parsons has noted that he felt he did well, though he might have offended some of the more devout attendees in the audience.

Hector Avalos v Rubel Shelly 1998

( VHS tape in the ISU library )

This is the one that WL Craig referenced in his own debate against Avalos in 2004. Before getting to the debate topic, Craig spent almost 5 minutes attacking Avalos for his "unprofessional" conduct in his debate with Shelly. I would enjoy seeing this debate and maybe I can get it through ILL. But then I would need to get a VHS video player!

Eddie Tabash v Richard Swinburne

( Hallq reviews the debate in 2006 )

Swinburne is supposed to be one of the better apologists out there, he seems pretty interesting because he doesn't subscribe to the Divine Command Theory. According to comments in the review I linked to, Tabash only barely won the debate so it sounds interesting.

This is another debate that I contacted Tabash about. He asked me for my address so he could send it to me but that was almost a month ago. I know that Tabash is a lawyer and actually has a life but it's breaking my heart!

UPDATE: I actually got it from Mr. Tabash but I have been putting off watching it.
Thomas Henry Huxley v Samuel Wilberforce on Evolution 1860  
( Wikipedia page on the debate )

Supposed to be a lot of fun. I am pretty sure I won't come across an MP3 file or YouTube video of this debate anytime soon.

 Kenneth Miller v Kent Hovind 2000

( Hovind mentions it on his radio show )

Miller is my favorite Creation opponent and a great debater. Hovind is slippery, slimy and a great debater. This would have been a fun listen!

Farrell Till v Michael Horner Resurrection 1995 

( transcript

I've only heard Till debate against Hovind on the Genesis Flood and he did a great job and knows his stuff. Again, he's one of the peeps Luke M. would like to see debate Craig but he unfortunately passed away last year.

Farrell Till v Norman Geisler Resurrection 1994

( transcript )

Same reasons as stated above.

Eddie Tabash v Greg Bahnsen 1993

( dead YouTube link )

The debate might have been in 1996. I want to hear it because of how funny Eddie's assessment of Bahnsen's performance seems to be. NOTE: I just bought them, impulsively. I think I'll make post about it. I plan on contacting the web manager of the site where I bought it and begging him to make it free for everyone.

UPDATE: Okay, I bought it. It was just okay...Bahnsen isn't too great of a debater, he didn't seem familiar with the even more known arguments against theism.

Edwin Kagin plus v Michael Medved and callers 2005 


Augh this one was so fun. Edwin Kagin is known for being a fun wily polemic with a good ol' Southern accent. He and a camp volunteer (or attendee) to camp quest, Sarah Silverman (not that one) call in to talk about Camp Quest, a secular camp for kids. Medved tries his darnedest to use his radio personality schtick to take the upper hand on Kagin and even Silverman (who was 15 or 16, IIRC) and just can't do it. Kagin is wonderfully polemical and Silverman comes off as super sweet. The callers were a lot of fun, too.

I had this debate! I don't know WHY I deleted it, if I did or where the hell it is!

River v Hovind Misc Debates

( damn you Floridian weather! )

River is the one guy who really got under Hovind's skin when he called into his old Creation Science Hour internet radio show. These ( 1 & 2 ) are the only recordings available that I have found. River also called in to The Infidel Guy when Hovind was a guest and that was a lot of fun.

I finally got into contact with River and he told me that he once tried to get copies of the shows he was on but the show's co-host Jonathon Sampson said the archives were lost in a storm. River told me that he called in in late 2004 and early 2005 but both of those periods are missing from this archive of the show: 3Bible, scroll down! Truth radio has a weird re-broadcasting of the show that I am not sure is around the same time...I did try to sift through the episodes but it was too much, a lot of times (in 2004 at least) no one called in and Hovind just read letters talking about how great he was and talked about creepy things like how if he were god, we would all be dead...

William Lane Craig v Michael Schmidt-Salomon

( video in German )

This one is in German, but apparently Schmidt-Salomon devastated Craig...and by apparently I mean one person said that he got beaten up in the Craig Debate Reviews comments...

And so there you have it. Someday I will create a time machine and travel back in time and record all these debates in HD and then, I will truly have ALL THE DEBATES.


  1. The Farrell Till-Norman Gesiler debate is now up on YouTube!

    I agree that Mr. Till is amazing in everything that have to do with the bible

  2. Thanks for the heads up! Some day i will get back into listening to all the debates and I will check that one out!


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