This debate ( audio | video playlist | 27m58s ) took place between Jason Bermas and Dylan Avery versus two editors from PM.
4 stars. CHECK
This debate took place in that wonderful year of 2006, the year when I think the 911 Truth Movement peaked in terms of activism. I also believe that this debate focused on Loose Change 2, which is the craziest, apparently.
This one is pretty short and more serious Truthers don't hold to a lot of the claims that are discussed like the impossibility of the phone calls and missiles. However, last time I did happen to talk to irl Truthers they still were spewing these arguments.
Also, Avery and Bermas were never really too great at debating this stuff anyways. Bermas loves to talk and certainly does most of the talking in this debate and in the one he had with Mark Roberts, but he's definitely a kid in this debate in the way he and Avery snicker and act.
A short but fun one!
Technical: Decent AQ, there are several videos on YouTube but the only playlists I found also has a bunch of Truther movies on it that I didn't feel like linking to.
RE: 8-6-2013: I lowered the score, I have too many 4.25 star debates.
RE: 9-26-2013; I added a link to a video. I knew of the videos beforehand but didn't want to link to a channel that has such CT garbage on it, but I know that people prefer videos over the audio so here we are.
Showing posts with label 911. Show all posts
Showing posts with label 911. Show all posts
Sunday, August 4, 2013
Friday, July 19, 2013
My Debates
The following are all the different debates I have been in or involved in. I have mostly debated 911, the topic I know the most about. I'll give mini-reviews/assessments with 'em.
Same Sex Marriage Debates
Me v the Westboro Baptist Church (God Hates Fags) kids (2010) ( video playlist )
4.75 stars FUN
These are pretty funny. The kids know how to tow the party line. The problems that people have with the videos is the singing in the background is pretty bad. I also employ the use of shaky cam for artistic purposes.
Me v Charlie Check'm the Homophobic Atheist Rapper (NSFW) (2012) ( video playlist )
4.25 stars CHECK
The first few have Check'm pretty low in sound quality. Check'm is also very frustrating, but I was told that I did well in these so hence the higher score and the "CHECK", as well. Check'm curses a few times, as do I. I try to keep all my videos PG cause I think that cursing loses its greatness if used too much.
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Evolution
Me plus v Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron plus (2009) ( video playlist )
5 stars CHECK
Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron came to UCLA to hand out free copies of The Origin of Species in honor of its 150th year since it was published. Before the actual content, Comfort (in a larger font) wrote a pretty stupid preface. As the president of the skeptics club on campus I and a bunch of others went down there to hand out bookmarks with information about evolution (and pictures of bananas) to argue with the two pop-apologists.
The one with Kirk Cameron arguing with my friend Randali got very popular. It was on TMZ, PZ Myers talked about it (in the comments someone made a transcript of everything!) and it has just over 200,000 views. I am barely in the most popular one because Cameron only wanted to talk to one person at a time (legit).
One thing that was annoying was that some guy came down and played the tuba. Almost all the comments were people complaining about the tuba and not being able to hear what was happening. I thought that the tuba guy was there with Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron but my friend later told me that he knew the guy through band and that he just decided to come down and play his tuba. Just decided...
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911 Debates
I call in to a debate with Dylan Avery and Pat Curly (2009) ( audio | video part 1 )
4.25 stars BEST
JREF discussion about it (my username is fourtoe)
The 4.25 stars is for the whole debate, the AQ, the host and other callers. I call at 24.49 into the debate. Listen to the whole debate though! The video is just audio and it's poor AQ.
Me v Misc. Truthers and Jeremy the Bearded Truther (2010) ( video playlist )
3 stars
A lot of information is brought up. Jeremy is the only Truther who I have met irl who knows the more tedious arguments about 911. Sorry for the shaky cam!
Me v CSI911.info Guy (2012) ( video )
2.5 stars LAP
This one I did not do well in. I had to walk on eggshells around the guy cause he got pretty defensive. He also refused to look at any other sources of evidence. My style is pointing out that thousands of independent entities have studied the attacks on 911 that explain the things that Truthers complain about as unknown. The guy also dismissed a lot of stuff I said because it was found on JREF, a place known for throwing down with Truthers.
But yeah, I just wasn't prepared and couldn't go about this as I normally do because of how defensive and condescending the guy would get.
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Misc Debates
Me v Crazy Anti-Semitic 911 Truther (2011) ( video )
3.75 stars FUN
After I graduated from UCLA I was still in contact with some of the club members of the skeptics club I was apart of. They called me and told me that the Westboro Baptists were in town and I went down to debate them again! As you can see, I tried to debate the more adult members this time around but it was either too loud or the guy was too busy talking to his iPhone. THEN a wild 911 Truther appeared! I was so excited, but the guy was just nuts...so here we are.
Me v Crazy Lyndon LaRouche Supporter NSFW (2010) ( video )
1 star
This isn't really a debate as it is more of a recording of some guy calling me a bitch over 50 times (I once counted). The LaRouchebags are a cult of personality around a guy with no personality Lyndon LaRouche. Their members are known for the Obama Hitler mustache signs and for being aggressive and creepy. They're also known for not arguing with someone if they know that the guy knows what they're talking about and if the guy has a camera. They have that right, but...
---------
Well there you have it. I enjoy debating too, but I don't think I would do well in a formal debate like most of the ones I review. I think I would be better at more of a dialogue-debate. Also for some reason I am interested in rather esoteric topics, like conspiracy theories and most people aren't interested in them because of how ridiculous they are.
Same Sex Marriage Debates
Me v the Westboro Baptist Church (God Hates Fags) kids (2010) ( video playlist )
4.75 stars FUN
These are pretty funny. The kids know how to tow the party line. The problems that people have with the videos is the singing in the background is pretty bad. I also employ the use of shaky cam for artistic purposes.
Me v Charlie Check'm the Homophobic Atheist Rapper (NSFW) (2012) ( video playlist )
4.25 stars CHECK
The first few have Check'm pretty low in sound quality. Check'm is also very frustrating, but I was told that I did well in these so hence the higher score and the "CHECK", as well. Check'm curses a few times, as do I. I try to keep all my videos PG cause I think that cursing loses its greatness if used too much.
----------
Evolution
Me plus v Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron plus (2009) ( video playlist )
5 stars CHECK
Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron came to UCLA to hand out free copies of The Origin of Species in honor of its 150th year since it was published. Before the actual content, Comfort (in a larger font) wrote a pretty stupid preface. As the president of the skeptics club on campus I and a bunch of others went down there to hand out bookmarks with information about evolution (and pictures of bananas) to argue with the two pop-apologists.
The one with Kirk Cameron arguing with my friend Randali got very popular. It was on TMZ, PZ Myers talked about it (in the comments someone made a transcript of everything!) and it has just over 200,000 views. I am barely in the most popular one because Cameron only wanted to talk to one person at a time (legit).
One thing that was annoying was that some guy came down and played the tuba. Almost all the comments were people complaining about the tuba and not being able to hear what was happening. I thought that the tuba guy was there with Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron but my friend later told me that he knew the guy through band and that he just decided to come down and play his tuba. Just decided...
-----------
911 Debates
I call in to a debate with Dylan Avery and Pat Curly (2009) ( audio | video part 1 )
4.25 stars BEST
JREF discussion about it (my username is fourtoe)
The 4.25 stars is for the whole debate, the AQ, the host and other callers. I call at 24.49 into the debate. Listen to the whole debate though! The video is just audio and it's poor AQ.
Me v Misc. Truthers and Jeremy the Bearded Truther (2010) ( video playlist )
3 stars
A lot of information is brought up. Jeremy is the only Truther who I have met irl who knows the more tedious arguments about 911. Sorry for the shaky cam!
Me v CSI911.info Guy (2012) ( video )
2.5 stars LAP
This one I did not do well in. I had to walk on eggshells around the guy cause he got pretty defensive. He also refused to look at any other sources of evidence. My style is pointing out that thousands of independent entities have studied the attacks on 911 that explain the things that Truthers complain about as unknown. The guy also dismissed a lot of stuff I said because it was found on JREF, a place known for throwing down with Truthers.
But yeah, I just wasn't prepared and couldn't go about this as I normally do because of how defensive and condescending the guy would get.
----------
Misc Debates
Me v Crazy Anti-Semitic 911 Truther (2011) ( video )
3.75 stars FUN
After I graduated from UCLA I was still in contact with some of the club members of the skeptics club I was apart of. They called me and told me that the Westboro Baptists were in town and I went down to debate them again! As you can see, I tried to debate the more adult members this time around but it was either too loud or the guy was too busy talking to his iPhone. THEN a wild 911 Truther appeared! I was so excited, but the guy was just nuts...so here we are.
Me v Crazy Lyndon LaRouche Supporter NSFW (2010) ( video )
1 star
This isn't really a debate as it is more of a recording of some guy calling me a bitch over 50 times (I once counted). The LaRouchebags are a cult of personality around a guy with no personality Lyndon LaRouche. Their members are known for the Obama Hitler mustache signs and for being aggressive and creepy. They're also known for not arguing with someone if they know that the guy knows what they're talking about and if the guy has a camera. They have that right, but...
---------
Well there you have it. I enjoy debating too, but I don't think I would do well in a formal debate like most of the ones I review. I think I would be better at more of a dialogue-debate. Also for some reason I am interested in rather esoteric topics, like conspiracy theories and most people aren't interested in them because of how ridiculous they are.
Monday, May 27, 2013
Mark Roberts vs Loose Change Creators Avery & Bermas - 911 Conspiracy Theories BEST
This debate ( audio | video 1 & 2 | 55:33s ) took place in 2006 between the creators of Loose Change Dylan Avery and Jason Bermas and Tour Guide Mark Gravy Roberts. They discussed topics concerning 911 Conspiracy Theories, specifically those related to Avery and Bermas' documentary.
Ronald Wieck was the moderator but he's quite critical of 911 conspiracy theories. However Wieck's also known for being pretty fair and equal time was had by all.
Debate begins around 1:05s...
4 stars: Mark Roberts is unabating in the ways he uncovers the myriad sketchy claims of the 911 Truth Movement. BEST
This debate is about an hour long and is one of the best in terms of straightforward "smackdowns" of a skeptic over a crank. But all debaters were nice and discussed the topics well though I wish more of the non-technical aspects of this conspiracy theory were discussed. And though Avery was pretty quiet throughout, Bermas was very outgoing.
But I shouldn't be to smug, because Roberts knows his stuff and that Bermas and Avery are as Avery says "a bunch of kids" so it isn't a surprise that this was such a slaughter. And now I think I sound like I'm being a dick to Avery and Bermas but I'm honestly not. I do actually think they are sincere in their beliefs but just horribly wrong. I do also think that Avery's admission that his flick has a lot of dubious claims and his advocacy of other docs is commendable.
It's just that the debunkers' side has a problem in the 911 Debate. Mark Roberts got snubbed by David Ray Griffin, the respectable face of the Truth Movement while Richard Gage ONLY agreed to 'debate' Mark Roberts in thee most uncharitable format possible. So Roberts has to address just kids like Avery and Bermas. Roberts has to sit through three episodes with Jim Fetzer trying to make this theory sound sane.
I would note that this debate is dated (2006) but the views presented by Truthers mentioned in this debate are still being thrown around by your average Truther and though the movement has retreated to wanting to only talk about the WTC dust particles, their big named defenders still believe all this stuff but just refuse to talk about them because they know they sound ridic.
Mark Roberts takes on some other, bigger Truthers, namely Richard Gage which I will link to later.
Check it out!
Ronald Wieck was the moderator but he's quite critical of 911 conspiracy theories. However Wieck's also known for being pretty fair and equal time was had by all.
Debate begins around 1:05s...
4 stars: Mark Roberts is unabating in the ways he uncovers the myriad sketchy claims of the 911 Truth Movement. BEST
This debate is about an hour long and is one of the best in terms of straightforward "smackdowns" of a skeptic over a crank. But all debaters were nice and discussed the topics well though I wish more of the non-technical aspects of this conspiracy theory were discussed. And though Avery was pretty quiet throughout, Bermas was very outgoing.
But I shouldn't be to smug, because Roberts knows his stuff and that Bermas and Avery are as Avery says "a bunch of kids" so it isn't a surprise that this was such a slaughter. And now I think I sound like I'm being a dick to Avery and Bermas but I'm honestly not. I do actually think they are sincere in their beliefs but just horribly wrong. I do also think that Avery's admission that his flick has a lot of dubious claims and his advocacy of other docs is commendable.
It's just that the debunkers' side has a problem in the 911 Debate. Mark Roberts got snubbed by David Ray Griffin, the respectable face of the Truth Movement while Richard Gage ONLY agreed to 'debate' Mark Roberts in thee most uncharitable format possible. So Roberts has to address just kids like Avery and Bermas. Roberts has to sit through three episodes with Jim Fetzer trying to make this theory sound sane.
I would note that this debate is dated (2006) but the views presented by Truthers mentioned in this debate are still being thrown around by your average Truther and though the movement has retreated to wanting to only talk about the WTC dust particles, their big named defenders still believe all this stuff but just refuse to talk about them because they know they sound ridic.
Mark Roberts takes on some other, bigger Truthers, namely Richard Gage which I will link to later.
Check it out!
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